April 17, 2014, 07:00:57 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: SMF - Just Installed!
 
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Nightline Face-Off: Does Satan Exist? With Marc Driscoll  (Read 3131 times)
Bob
Newbie
*
Posts: 17


View Profile Email
« on: March 27, 2009, 01:07:14 AM »

Nightline ran a "debate" between Marc Driscoll and Annie Lobert (ex-hooker) arguing that Satan exists and Deepak Chopra and Bishop Carlton Pearson arguing that Satan does not exist. On TV they showed an edited and shortened version. The full exchange is on the ABC web site in a 10 part video feed, found here:

http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=7173976


I cannot help but note Deeprak Chopra surprised me with how demeaning he is to Christian views. And Pearson seems to argue against all the stereotypes and childhood conceptions of God, Satan, and our Faith. It is sad that he never seemed to be able to evaluate a mature faith and rejected instead a bundle of stereotypes and charicatures. Chopra spent so much time, in my opinion, attacking straw men, that it is clear he has never had a clear explanation of Christian faith. Initial thoughts. Comments welcome.
Logged
Obi-Ron
Newbie
*
Posts: 41


Let go of everything you fear to loose...


View Profile Email
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2009, 09:21:15 PM »

  I dont believe i saw all 10, but i did find it an interesting debate. I have seen other vids of lobert and her Hookers for Christ crusade. Even though she thinks the bible is 100% word for word, i feel the people she is reaching out to are deserving. "It's the sick that need a doctor not the well." I worked in a strip club for a year as a cook.. i love my friends there.... Some of the best friends i've ever had.

  "i'll have to admit i was impressed by Pearson's words on how he doesn't believe the bible is 100% foolproof, but that he still believes. I thought he was well spoken. I was familiar with who Chopra was, but never heard him speak. I did agree with some of what he said.

   Marc Driscol on several questions, didn't really answer them as much as he quoted scripture and got a rise out of the audience. I would rather have heard a real answer.

   As for the comment about why is there so much evil in the world, and why does GOD allow it to happen. God created the world for us and gave us the gift to create and of procreation. The world is what WE have made of it. Hookers are raped and wars are fought because WE allow it to happen AND to continue. What do we tell our children.... if you made the mess, you have to clean it up. It's not God's responsibility to pick up after us or fix our mess.

  I have a feeling alot of people are going to be disappointed on judgement day when God asks why we squandered our minds and talents. Christ said that we could do all the things he did and even greater things... and all we can do is squabble amongst ourselves like children.

       Namaste
             Obi-Ron

   
Logged

Bob
Newbie
*
Posts: 17


View Profile Email
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2009, 02:42:23 AM »

Obi-Ron,
I think Driscoll's answers were better when you see the vids at ABC; Nightline edited them poorly in my opinion, but probably did the best they could in making it fit the time slot. But I agree that some of his answers missed the point or at least missed a great opportunity. 

Sadly, I think some of Deeprok's criticisms were actually very much in line with a Biblical view of humanity and he was attacking a charicature of Biblical faith. Unfortunately so much of the Church accepts those charicatures themselves so it is a distorted faith that is often presented to the world. I think Pr Driscoll missed some great opportunities to address those exact issues. I would have to review the vids again to get the exact comments but there were a few that I thought should have been opportunities to clarify Biblical teachings.  Pearson also had a few of those moments. The most bothersome to me was when he said the image of God that many Christians have is of an old white man with a long white beard on a throne with a scepter, pronouncing judgements.  Do many have childish understandings of God?  Yes.  But what an opportunity for someone to point out just that - such views are childish and contrary to Scripture. 

I think Lobert blaimed too much on the devil; we are quite capable of creating our own messes, but given her background, I can understand her more extreme view of Satan's activities.  And since so many who faced the darker evils in life tend to see Satan as far more active, perhaps we should not too quickly dismiss their view of things.  I just watched an MSNBC special on teen sex slaves being trafficed in our cities, via Craig's list and My Space, etc.  It is a painful reminder that humans can be unbelievably evil, but also reminds me that Satan is alive and well and he and his demons are busy destroying lives.  All the more reason why God's people must be advancing against the gates of hell, not waiting for escapees to stumble into our churches.

Amen on your closing comment.  When Scripture says He will wipe away every last tear, I cannot help but think that for so many of us those tears will not be for our own pain or suffering, but like Liam Nieson (probably mispelled - sorry, Liam) at the end of Schindler's List, we will weep for how much more we could have done.  No condemnation intended, our job is not to bear the weight of the world but to follow Jesus and do the part that He gives us to do.
Logged
Pastor Josh
Administrator
Sr. Member
*****
Posts: 399



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2009, 07:46:46 AM »

Wow. I was blown away by this. I am glad they got who they did to discuss it. I do think that Bishop Pearson presents far too many caricatures as to what Christian belief is. You could probably have an entire debate on just those issues. I remember seeing him preach several times back in the late 1980's. He is a dynamic speaker, but I think much of what he believed and then turned against was false to begin with. I think he never fully grasped the grace of God, and saw Him as a white guy with a beard and a sceptre, ready to lash out judgment on folks who disobey. But of course we ALL disobey, so then it would make sense that we all deserve said judgment. That's where grace fits in. I don't think he ever understood that God can be both loving and judging; they are not a contradiction in character. I can love my son, and still judge and punish his wrong actions (at this point, those actions mainly involve trying to eat strange objects, but he is only 10 months old). OK, not the best example, but my point is love and judgment are not contradictions. Pearson seems to think it is one or the other with God.

I also don't understand what Chopra would say that saying Jesus is God is sexist. If anything, it shows the exact opposite. Jesus was very un-sexist, especially given his cultural context. The gospel was first revealed to and understood (and even proclaimed) by the women closest to him. Jesus acceptance of and willingness to talk to women shows a respect and dignity towards women that was way ahead of the times. That is not something a sexist God would do. I have read other writings by Chopra, and he likes the gnostic gospels (Thomas, Judas, etc) more than the Christian gospels, yet these gospels teach that the only way a woman can be enlightened and enter the kingdom of heaven is by becoming a man! (If you want to, look up Gospel of Thomas saying 114, which is a summary statement of the gnostic gospels). That is sexist!

Chopra also seems to be saying that all views of truth and our experience are equally valid, but that his are more enlightened than others. And he talks about the problems with belief, and how bad and destructive a thing belief is, yet his belief about belief is a belief. So then on what basis can he believe what he believes? He also keeps making reference back to science and evolution, and what we know to be true, yet he didn't show how any of these (much debated and much disputed) beliefs had any connection to belief in God or Satan.

I applaud Nightline for putting this debate on. I am glad that in a postmodern, or emerging context, where a plurality of ideas is valued, the "gatekeepers" are willing to give the Christian perspective its opportunity to articulate what it believes, and give others the chance to hear it and decide for themselves. I am also glad that Mark Driscoll, and not someone like Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson, is being given the opportunity to present the Christian view to the public at large.
Logged

Joshua E. Lickter
Church Planter, Incarnation
 
PO Box 7763
Auburn, CA 95604-7763
530.559.1864
Www.IncarnationAuburn.Org
Www.Myspace.Com/TheStarWarsPastor
               ..and...
Somewhere on Facebook...
 
"A Community That Enjoys God,
Loves Others, and Engages Culture"
Pastor Josh
Administrator
Sr. Member
*****
Posts: 399



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2009, 10:02:46 PM »

OK, I think the best part of the debate happens during the questions from the audience. A man in a red shirt walks up to the microphone and says to Deepok, "You say that all belief is a cover-up for insecurity, correct?" And Deepok says "Yes". Then the man says "Do you believe that?" To which Deepok says "Yes" and the man smiles and says "Thank you" and walks away.

If you are on the Nightline link, look up "Face-Off" and click on that. It should let you watch all ten segments of the full debate.

The more I watch this, and the more I think it over, the more I think this is an historic debate.

For starters, debating is a lost art, that is set aside mostly for Presidential campaigns. I love seeing the exchange of ideas going on here, and I think everyone who watches it will go away learning somethings.

Second, Mark Driscoll is giving an extremely balanced, intellectual, and Biblical presentation of Christianity. That is a breath of fresh air. It is the first time I know of that someone with a balanced, historic, reformed perspective has had such widespread media exposure. I applaud him for being so willing to step outside of the box in ministry without compromising core values and beliefs. In addition, he is dealing with the presuppositions his "opponents" are bringing to the table, and showing how they are inconsistent in their beliefs. For example, he tells Carlton that if he walked up to him and punched him in the face, Carlton would pass a judgment and say it is wrong, and react accordingly. Yet this behavior is contrary to the "belief" Carlton claims to have.

I am so glad Nightline put this together.
Logged

Joshua E. Lickter
Church Planter, Incarnation
 
PO Box 7763
Auburn, CA 95604-7763
530.559.1864
Www.IncarnationAuburn.Org
Www.Myspace.Com/TheStarWarsPastor
               ..and...
Somewhere on Facebook...
 
"A Community That Enjoys God,
Loves Others, and Engages Culture"
HelenJames
Newbie
*
Posts: 1


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2010, 05:36:21 PM »

I think we all get a little bit distracted from the main topicstarter's theme
Logged
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to: